规则 – translation for guidelines?

 

Background?

Xian Sheng gave us the Spiritual Guidelines to help guide us onto the path to Heaven. However, when Xian Sheng spoke in Cantonese, he always used the Chinese term 规则 Guize as the translation for guideline.

Over the years, we have become familiar and even attached to 规则 that many brothers and sisters do bother to find out whether 规则 is the Chinese  translation Xian Sheng wanted to represent guideline in Spiritual Guidelines.

This page is created to provide BAITIANGONG brothers and sisters with video clips, facts and other relevant information so that you can make an informed decision whether the translation of Spiritual Guidelines as intended by Xian Sheng is 神圣规则/

 


History of 神圣指南

Seminar at Morib

A seminar was organised by the Council of Elders at Sri Pantai Rest House at Morib from 1st to 3rd of May in 1981. The 8-page booklet is attached for your reference.

The translation clearly shows in traditional Chinese 神聖指南and this was approved by the Council of Elders in 1981. See the zoomed version below.

Page 8 Zoomed in

Page 8 Zoomed in

 

 

 

 


Pocket Book 1981

Prior to the printing of this Pocket Book and the 5th Anniversary Booklet, there was a Spiritual Discussion in Taman Maluri to decide whether to use 神圣指南 or 神圣的指南. As 神圣的指南 was deemed grammatically correct, future translation for Spiritual Guidelines would be 神圣的指南.

 


5th Anniversary Book for 3rd October 1981

The 5th Anniversary booklet uses the Chinese word 神圣的指南 for Spiritual Guidelines.


2nd October 1982 – Declaration of 100% trust to Xian Sheng during the 6th Anniversary

This declaration was to be read out during the 6th Anniversary at TIANGONG BAIXIAN Holy Hall at Salak South. Unfortunately, the event was interrupted by appearance of police at the scene and 28 brothers and sister were arrested.

A Declaration. 1982. 6th Anniversary

A Declaration. 1982. 6th Anniversary

Zoomed in

Zoomed in

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Google Translate

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Police arrest during the 6th Anniversary celebration

The Police raided and arrested selected BAITIANGONG followers during our 6th Anniversary celebration is Salak South. The pictures shown are scanned from the 7th Anniversary book.

Note

After the arrest in 1982, there were more important things to deal with and the issue of神圣的指南 were soon forgotten. Brothers and sisters that joined after 1982 were not aware that the accepted translation for Spiritual Guidelines was 神圣的指南 and not the present 神圣规则.

 


Supporting Audio and Video recordings by Xian Sheng

Extract of Xian Sheng’s talk about Satanic Verses in the late ’80s

“And all the way we have all sorts of rules and regulations trying to govern the human beings. In the end, it comes to naught. In the end, it comes to naught, you know. With all the governing regulations and rules, security, everything (ah), in the end it comes to naught. You know why, the judgment is not here. It is not here for you to judge. In BAITIANGONG, it is not here for you to judge. In other words, in the end there will come a time when death overtakes a man, succumb to death and death will judge him – whether he is right or wrong.”

翻译:

“一直以来,我们有各种各样的规则和条例试图治理人类 。到头来,一切都是零。您知道,到头来,一切都是零。这些所有的规则与条规,保安及一切,到头来,一切都是零。您知道为什么吗?因为判决不是在这里。不是在这里让您来判决的。在拜天公里,不是在这里让您来判决的。换句话说,最终将会有一个时期,人将屈服于死亡,而死亡将判决他—无论他是对或者是错。”

 


Thank GOD I don’t lay in down in the guidelines

Thank GOD I don’t lay this down in BAITIANGONG guidelines – rules and regulations. BAITIANGONG guidelines, I use the word guidelines are more than rules and regulations. Guidelines are some of the best in the second . . . . what is right, what is wrong. But even to us, what is right, to others may be wrong.

翻译:

多谢天公,我并没有把它记载在拜天公guidelines-规则与条规里。拜天公guidelines,我用这个词guidelines应它胜于规则与条规。Guidelines是最佳的在第二里,什么是正确,什么是错误。 但是即使对我们来说,什么是正确的,对别人也许是错误的。

 


Audio recording in 26 July 1998 – Give certain guidelines

I’m here to give you the guidelines. I’m not the lawgiver. Have you heard me say that? I’m not the lawgiver. I’m not here to bring you the Ten Commandments. If I tell you the Ten Commandments, I will tell you, that most of the Christians are cannot be Christians. Based on Ten Commandments alone. If they talk about fornication, pre-marriage sexual affairs, all of them cannot be a Christians, can not be accepted to be a Christians, based on laws, you know. But fornication is their interpretation, that’s no where in fornication it says what they meant today. That’s why I brought it out from the old Bible, there is no such things. But whatever it is, when it become laws that means they are finish! But in BAITIANGONG, we have only guidelines. Everything is guidelines. I am not here on rules and regulations. I’m here to give you certain guidelines. Alright, if you were to go against these guidelines, still you have to pay for it in death. Even though there are guideline, you go against it, there is certain guidelines which says, you don’t go for prostitution. You go and become a prostitute, then you’ll be in serious trouble in death, if you want to be a prostitute, you can, but you’ll be seriously, you know, it will have serious problems in life after death, if you are a prostitute, but still this is a guideline, it is to tell you, you’ll be in serious trouble, is the thing that you can not do, you do, you’ll be in serious trouble. That’s all. But they are not laws. And all that Divine Law of Nature, GOD doesn’t bother, as I’ve said many times hah, GOD couldn’t be bother lah with you. We have the Divine Law of Nature drawn out already. There is Heaven, there is Hell. Where there is Heaven, there is Hell, there is the Divine Law of Nature, is already there, GOD couldn’t bothered.

翻译:

我在这给你Guidelines,我不是立法者。你听到我这么说吗?我不是立法者。我不在这带给你十诫。如果我告诉你十诫,我会告诉你,大部分的基督教徒不能成为基督教徒了。基于十诫本身。当你谈及通奸,婚前性行为以及所有的事情,就不能成为基督教徒,不被接受成为基督教徒,你知道那是法律。但是通奸是他们自己的诠释,所以今天通奸对他们来说并没意味着什么。 这就是为什么我把它从旧的圣经里带出来,没有这回事。但是无论什么,如果它真成为法律,那么他们就完了!但在拜天公里,我们仅有guidelines。所有一切都是guidelines。我不在这制定规则和法规。我在这给予你一些guidelines。当然,如果你违反这些guidelines,你仍然会在死亡后偿还。就算它只是guidelines,你去违反它,会有一定的guidelines说,你不能卖淫。你去成为一个妓女,那么你将会在死亡后遇到严重的麻烦,如果你想成为一个妓女,你可以,但是你会很严重,这将会在死后有严重的问题,如果你是一个妓女,但这仍然是一个guidelines,它是告诉你,你将会有严重的麻烦,是你不能做的事情,你做,你会有严重的麻烦。就这样,但是它们不是法律。这些是神圣自然安排,天公懒得理会。正如我已经说过很多次,天公懒得理会你。 我们已经有了神圣自然安排。有天堂,有地狱。 在那里有天堂,有地狱,有神圣自然安排,已经在那里了,天公懒得理会。

 


Audio recording in 26 July 1998 – There are no laws in BAITIANGONG

我讲咧,我唔知你哋规则係指南,指南係规则,啊呢啲咧,我唔多清楚,不过係话係,有人同我讲,佢讲,eh,呢个係指南,呢个唔係规则,点解?啊,你嘅英文係讲Guideline係指南,佢係指南,我讲Ok,咪指南咯,对我冇野架,不过你问到我咧,讲返係讲係Guideline,Guideline係乜野,佢讲係指南,哦,咪指南咯,係话你讲,拜天公有法律,规则係法律嚟讲,eh,我讲唔係咯,係话规则係法律嚟讲啊,唔係咯,拜天公冇法律,拜天公冇法律。係话你讲係法律啦,係law啦,规则係law嚟讲啊,甘样唔啱咗。规则係….law啦,唔係法律啦,啊,OK,係话,係话你讲唔係法律咧(男声:你讲係规则)我讲,係啦,规则啦,係话你讲係法律嚟讲啊,甘样唔係咗。啱,不过你唔好同我讲係法律,知冇,啊,係话你讲law啊,唔啱咗,啊,唔啱咗,係话你讲规则係一个,係规条啊,啊,不过规条都係一种嘅指南,你知冇,係话你讲指南啦

 


Audio recording in 26 July 1998 – Xian Sheng confirms Spiritual Guideline is 神圣的指南

(男声:如果你哋讲Rules係Law,唔係规则咧,甘样你爱用我都冇,我讲对我都冇乜野外嘅坦白讲)啊,OK,决定咗去啦,规则都係一种嘅指南,OK(男声:拜天公神圣嘅指南)哦,拜天公神圣嘅指南(男声:拜天公嘅神圣嘅指南,一打开…模糊不清)OK啦,写拜天公神圣嘅指南咯,入底嗰处你同人哋讲,那呢啲係我哋嘅规则咯,同佢讲,讲咪同佢讲,讲规则咯,拜天公神圣嘅指南,係话人哋问你,呢条啊,呢个第几条嘅规则咯,得咯,冇相干嘅,不过我中文话我唔知,不过英文话我哋讲,我係讲Guidelines,我同你讲啊,点解我用呢个Guidelines啊,点解我用呢个指南,我同你解释,头先我讲英文,呢指南係讲,係话你离开嗰指南,你有罪你都係有罪嘅,啊,你唔得讲你冇罪,不过你唔係犯法,呢啲係神圣嘅

 


16 July 1999 – Only 3 guidelines enough

讲简单啦,正式简单啦!你问我讲,简单讲三个规则够啦(女声:三个,边三个?)呢第一拜天公咯,第二万事不怕不忌咯,第三係想好、睇好、听好、讲好、做好。实在你讲想好、睇好、(女声:都不容易做呀)听讲做啊,佢包括晒全部呀

 


16 July 1999 – Never say 规则

(男声:OK,先生,好似讲如果你讲规则係唔係,一犯到咗就係….)冇,冇,我冇讲规则。错咗,错咗,我冇讲规则。我讲规则佢问我规则,实在啊一路嚟啊,我英文话我讲係…我哋係Spiritual Guidelines。我一路嚟都係讲Spiritual Guidelines,不过你讲,佢问到嗰个规则,有时你要明白,你讲广府话係唔係,我讲英文啊,唔同。Actually is guideline in English,English is not wrong。以英文其实是guideline,英文是没错的佢讲,He says指南is not规则,he is right他是对的, because ah English因为英文一路我都讲啊我哋有Guidelines

 


16 July 1999 – Xian Sheng don’t understand Chinese

Spiritual Guidelines (男声:Chinese I think also got规则also)But they say指南ah (男声:规则also acceptance in that sense)I do not know because I don’t understand in Cantonese (男声:规则in actual sense,规则is not law,规则is rules only)Rules ah! Ok,Up to you lah, rules or regulations(男声:No. I mean… )But rules ah..! (男声:That’s why I say the dispute was there, whether it is a law, it is a rule, or it is a guideline)No. But the trouble is in English if the Guidelines is ….(男声:It is very clear)Guideline if you say it is not rules, I cannot dispute. May be he right, because it is not…not law. In Baitiangong we don’t make it into laws, like Moses…. (女声:规则都唔係law嚟嘅?规则都唔係讲law,係嗰规条)(男声:I don’t think any religion they make it into a law.)

翻译:

Spiritual Guidelines (男声:在中文我相信也有规则〗)但是他们说是指南啊(男声:规则亦可被接收的)我不知道,因为我不明白广州话。(男声:规则在原本字面的义意上说,它不是法律它是规则)规则啊!OK随你们啦,规则或章程。(男声:不,我的意思是.. )不过规则啊..!(男声:正因如此我说会引起争论的原因,到底它是法律,是规则还是guideline)不。但令人烦恼的是在英文方面,假如Guideline是.. (男声:这是很明确的)假如guideline像你所说的不是规则,我不能争论。或许他是对的,因为它不是..不是法律。在拜天公里我们不跟摩西一样,将之制定为法律(女声:规则都不是law来的?规则都不是讲law,是个规条)(男声:我不认为有任何宗教他们把它制定为法律)

 


16 July 1999 – Ask the Chinese Educated

I use the word Guidelines. First, we will have to ask the Chinese educated, what they say? That is the most important. Is guideline the rules & regulations? Is guideline the laws? If you talk about the laws lah, actually you talk about laws, ordinary laws. They are also rules.

翻译:

我用了Guideline这个字眼。首先,我们将必须询问受华文教育的人,他们的见解是什么?那是最重要的。是否Guideline是规则或章程?是否Guideline是法律?如果你们讨论关于法律啊,其实你们是在讨论法律,普通的法律,它们也是规则。

 


16 July 1999 – The Rule of Law

When we talk of laws, we also speak about the rule of laws, that’s the thing. You know. But where do we draw the line lah. I see. We are no authority on this you know. When we say of laws ah, we are also talking what you know the rule of law. Even in English ah, the rule of law. Actually rules are all the part of law. I know what, we are no authority on this, you know, because I am not Chinese educated

翻译:

当我们谈论法律,我们也谈论到法规(rule of law),就是这样,你知道吗?但我们要在哪里划定最后的界线呢?我看我们不是这方面的权威,你知道吗?当我们讲到法律,我们也谈到你所知道的法规(rule of law)。即使是英文啊,法规(rule of law)。 实际上规则是法律的一部分 。我知道我们并没有这方面的权威,因为我不是受华文教育的人。

Rule of Law

Rule of Law

 

 


16 July 1999 – 规则 is not laws

If in this said 规则is not law lah (女声:规条,先生)规条,then the word规条also can be used. I interpret you know…you know every time when I go on 宣传,I interpret as interpreted to me. I ask people… (男声:No, they are right in the sense taking the layman term, they are right in the sense, you cannot dispute they are wrong. They are layman… )So in other words you are saying, what萍姐said is also right, he is saying is also right. Both are also right (男声:Both are right in the layman’s term. But when you come to the actual translation, I mean you are talking, I am talking here. Those people who are mischievous, those Chinese scholars will ask that kind of question, then you are doubtful )Then they split hair!

翻译:

假如这么说规则不是法律啦(女声:规条,先生)规条,那么‘规条’这个词语也可以使用。你知道我阐释,你知道每当我去宣传时,我阐释你们为我所解释的字,我总是问人(男声:不,他们用的都是一些门外汉之措词的说法是对的,他们的说法是对的,你不能说他们错,他们是门外汉)所以换言之,你是说萍姐所说的是对的,阿东的说法也是对,两人都对的(男声:以门外汉之措词来讲,两者说法是对的。不过正确的翻译就不一样了,一旦遇上一些文字应用较苛求的人,尤其是华文学者,他们就会提诸如此类的问题,把你难倒了。)那么他们就争论不休是吗?

 


Online Dictionaries

Translation from Online Translation Website:-

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SDL FreeTranslation

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Collins Translator

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Pointers for discussion
讨论的指针

  1. a) Identify whether our Spiritual Guidelines are similar to the Ten Commandments (refer Appendix I) and Syariah Laws (Appendix II).
    确定我们的神圣的Guidelines是否类似于十诫(参见附录一)和伊斯兰教法(附录二)
    b) Identify the Rules and Guidelines from our Spiritual Guidelines.
    从我们的神圣的Guidelines中确定规则和Guidelines。
    c) Why do you consider them to be Rules or Guidelines?
    为什么您认为它们是规则或Guidelines?
  2. a) Are the Ten Commandments and Syariah Laws applicable to people from other religions?
    十诫和伊斯兰法是否适用于其他宗教的人?
    b) Is the Spiritual Guidelines applicable to people from other religions?
    神圣的Guidelines是否适用于其他宗教的人?
  3. a) What are the purposes of guidelines?
    Guidelines的目的是什么?
    b) What the purposes of rules?
    规则的目的是什么?
    c) Did Xian Sheng gave us laws?
    先生是否给了我们法律?
  4. The major monotheistic religions: Christianity and Islam, have rules and regulations. If BAITIANGONG do not have rules and regulations, do we qualify to be a religion too?
    主要的一神论宗教:基督教和伊斯兰教,都有规则和条例。如果拜天公没有规则和条例,我们也有资格成为宗教吗?
  5. What is the best Chinese word to translate Guidelines? Is there any dictionary to support your suggestion?
    Guidelines 最好的中文翻译词是什么?是否有任何字典来支持你的建议?

Appendix I

The Ten Commandments (Source: Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV )

No. Commandment Rules Guideline
1 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me. 除了我 (註:指上帝) 以外、你不可有別的神.
2 You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments. 不可為自己雕刻偶像、也不可作甚麼形像、彷彿上天、下地、和地底下、水中的百物. 不可跪拜那些像、也不可事奉他、因為我耶和華你的 神是忌邪的 神、恨我的、我必追討他的罪、自父及子、直到三四代. 愛我守我誡命的、我必向他們發慈愛、直到千代.
3 You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. 不可妄稱耶和華你 神的名、因為妄稱耶和華名的、耶和華必不以他為無罪.
4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. 當記念安息日、守為聖日. 六日要勞碌作你一切的工. 但第七日是向耶和華你 神當守的安息日.這一日你和你的兒女、僕婢、牲畜、並你城裡寄居的客旅、無論何工都不可作. 因為六日之內、耶和華造天、地、海、和其中的萬物、第七日便安息.所以耶和華賜福與安息日、定為聖日.
5 Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you. 當孝敬父母、使你的日子在耶和華你 神所賜你的地上、得以長久.
6 You shall not murder. 不可殺人.
7 You shall not commit adultery. 不可姦淫.
8 You shall not steal. 不可偷盜.
9 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 不可作假見證陷害人.
10 You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's. 不可貪戀人的房屋、也不可貪戀人的妻子、僕婢、牛驢、並他一切所有的.

 


Appendix II

Syariah laws – List of Key Rules in Saudi Arabia (Source: http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-law.html)

No. Syariah Law Rules Guideline
1 Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand. 偷窃可以通过右手截肢来惩罚。
2 Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death. 批评或否认“古兰经”的任何部分都可以受死刑惩罚。
3 Criticizing Muhammad or denying that he is a prophet is punishable by death. 批评穆罕默德或否认他是一个先知,可以受死刑惩罚。
4 Criticizing or denying Allah, the god of Islam is punishable by death. 批评或否定安拉,伊斯兰教的神受到死亡的惩罚。
5 A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death. 成为非穆斯林的穆斯林应受死刑惩罚。
6 A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death. 一个非穆斯林领导一个穆斯林从伊斯兰教,可以受死亡惩罚。
7 A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death. 与穆斯林妇女结婚的非穆斯林男子将受到死亡惩罚。
8 A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old. 一个男人可以结婚一个女婴,完成婚姻,当她9岁。
9 Girls' clitoris should be cut (Muhammad's words, Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251). 女孩的阴蒂应该被切
10 A woman can have 1 husband, who can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more. 一个女人可以有一个丈夫,谁可以有多达4个妻子; 穆罕默德可以有更多。
11 A man can beat his wife for insubordination. 一个男人可以打败他的妻子不服从。
12 A man can unilaterally divorce his wife; a woman needs her husband's consent to divorce. 离婚的妻子失去所有6岁或以上的儿童的监护权。
13 A divorced wife loses custody of all children over 6 years of age or when they exceed it. 离婚的妻子失去所有6岁或以上的儿童的监护权。
14 Testimonies of four male witnesses are required to prove rape against a woman. 四名男证人的证言需要证明对一名妇女的强奸。
15 A woman who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s). 被强奸的妇女不能在法庭上对她的强奸犯作证。
16 A woman's testimony in court, allowed in property cases, carries ½ the weight of a man's. 妇女在法庭上的证词,在财产案件中允许,携带一个男人的重量。
17 A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits. 女继承人继承了男继承人继承的一半。
18 A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval). 一个女人不能开车,因为它导致fitnah(动荡)。
19 A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative. 一个女人不能单独对一个不是她的丈夫或亲戚的人说话。
20 Meat to eat must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be "Halal". 吃肉必须来自牺牲给安拉的动物 - 即“清真”。
21 Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam. 穆斯林应该从事Taqiyya和谎言非穆斯林推动伊斯兰教。

 

Xian Sheng explains the Spiritual Guidelines